From ftmleone at hotmail.com Sat Aug 4 02:04:17 2007 From: ftmleone at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Frank_Leon=E9?=) Date: Sat Aug 4 02:04:19 2007 Subject: [pdp-discuss] pdp++ 64 bit Message-ID: Hello all, I got a new computer and am trying to install pdp++ (both version 3 and 4) in kubuntu 64 bit. Without any luck regretably. Can someone tell me whether pdp++ can be installed on a 64 bit OS? If so, how? To use the four cores of my quadcore in version 3, I should use the Makefile.LINUXdmem-file, or shouldn't I? I didn't get the two cores of my dual core to work previously, but hopefully someone can help. Thanks a lot in advance, kind regards, Frank _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live Hotmail, you can personalize your inbox with your favorite color. www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/personalize.html?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_addcolor_0607 From ftmleone at hotmail.com Wed Aug 8 02:17:34 2007 From: ftmleone at hotmail.com (=?Windows-1252?Q?Frank_Leon=E9?=) Date: Wed Aug 8 02:17:36 2007 Subject: [pdp-discuss] pdp++ 64 bit Message-ID: Hello all, I tried some things, without any luck, such as adding a -m32 parameter to the Makefiles and adding the linux32-command in front of the "make world" command. To no avail... For version 3, the error I get is: ** Making the maketa program (Maketa) ** make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/local/pdp++/src/ta_string' make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/local/pdp++/src/ta_string/LINUX' make libtastring.so 'OPT_DEBUG= -O2 -Wall' make[3]: Entering directory `/usr/local/pdp++/src/ta_string/LINUX' rm -f libtastring.so ta_string.o g++ -fPIC -fno-implicit-templates -fno-exceptions -shared -Wl,-soname,libtastring.so -o libtastring.so ta_string.o ta_string_ti.o /usr/bin/ld: warning: i386 architecture of input file `ta_string.o' is incompatible with i386:x86-64 output /usr/bin/ld: warning: i386 architecture of input file `ta_string_ti.o' is incompatible with i386:x86-64 output ta_string.o: In function `Salloc(taStrRep*, char const*, int, int)': ta_string.cc:(.text+0x5a4): undefined reference to `operator new[](unsigned int)' ta_string.o: In function `Sprepend(taStrRep*, char const*, int)': ta_string.cc:(.text+0x1dcf): undefined reference to `operator new[](unsigned int)' ta_string.o: In function `Scat(taStrRep*, char const*, int, char const*, int, char const*, int)': ta_string.cc:(.text+0x1faf): undefined reference to `operator new[](unsigned int)' ta_string.o: In function `Scat(taStrRep*, char const*, int, char const*, int)': ta_string.cc:(.text+0x221f): undefined reference to `operator new[](unsigned int)' ta_string.o: In function `Scopy(taStrRep*, taStrRep const*)': ta_string.cc:(.text+0x245b): undefined reference to `operator new[](unsigned int)' ta_string.o:ta_string.cc:(.text+0x264f): more undefined references to `operator new[](unsigned int)' follow collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[3]: *** [libtastring.so] Error 1 make[3]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/pdp++/src/ta_string/LINUX' make[2]: *** [optLib_impl] Error 2 make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/pdp++/src/ta_string/LINUX' make[1]: *** [optLib] Error 2 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/pdp++/src/ta_string' make: *** [Maketa] Error 1 For version 4, I get comparable errors: make all-recursive make[1]: Entering directory `/home/frank/Programs/src/pdp++-4.0.4' Making all in src/maketa make[2]: Entering directory `/home/frank/Programs/src/pdp++-4.0.4/src/maketa' make all-am make[3]: Entering directory `/home/frank/Programs/src/pdp++-4.0.4/src/maketa' if g++ -UDEBUG -I./../bp -I./../css -I./../leabra -I./../so -I./../cs -I./../pdp -I./../ta -I./../taiqtso -I./../maketa -I/home/frank/Programs/src/pdp++-4.0.4 -I. -I./src -I./../.. -I./.. -DNO_TA_BASE -g -O2 -I/usr/include/Inventor/annex -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/include/Inventor/annex -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/share/qt3/include -DSVN_REV= -I/usr/include/qt4 -I/usr/include/qt4/Qt -I/usr/include/qt4/QtCore -I/usr/include/qt4/QtNetwork -I/usr/include/qt4/Qt3Support -MT maketa-ta_ti.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/maketa-ta_ti.Tpo" -c -o maketa-ta_ti.o `test -f '../ta/ta_ti.cpp' || echo './'`../ta/ta_ti.cpp; \ then mv -f ".deps/maketa-ta_ti.Tpo" ".deps/maketa-ta_ti.Po"; else rm -f ".deps/maketa-ta_ti.Tpo"; exit 1; fi ../ta/ta_variant.h:337: error: ?Variant::Variant(int64_t)? cannot be overloaded ../ta/ta_variant.h:335: error: with ?Variant::Variant(long int)? ../ta/ta_variant.h:338: error: ?Variant::Variant(uint64_t)? cannot be overloaded ../ta/ta_variant.h:336: error: with ?Variant::Variant(long unsigned int)? ../ta/ta_variant.h:416: error: redefinition of ?Variant::Variant(int64_t)? ../ta/ta_variant.h:414: error: ?Variant::Variant(long int)? previously defined here ../ta/ta_variant.h:417: error: redefinition of ?Variant::Variant(uint64_t)? ../ta/ta_variant.h:415: error: ?Variant::Variant(long unsigned int)? previously defined here ../ta/ta_type.h: In member function ?virtual taString void_PArray::El_GetStr_(const void*) const?: ../ta/ta_type.h:304: error: cast from ?void*? to ?int? loses precision make[3]: *** [maketa-ta_ti.o] Error 1 make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/frank/Programs/src/pdp++-4.0.4/src/maketa' make[2]: *** [all] Error 2 make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/frank/Programs/src/pdp++-4.0.4/src/maketa' make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/frank/Programs/src/pdp++-4.0.4' make: *** [all] Error 2 both most likely related to the 64 bit OS. Maybe this helps... In the meantime, I copied the compiled version of my 32 bit laptop and it runs. Now it just should use all four cores to speed up processing. Anyone an idea how this can be done? Thanks a lot in advance! kind regards, Frank ---------------------------------------- > From: ftmleone@hotmail.com > To: pdp-discuss@psych.colorado.edu > Subject: [pdp-discuss] pdp++ 64 bit > Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 10:04:17 +0200 > CC: > > > Hello all, > > I got a new computer and am trying to install pdp++ (both version 3 and 4) in kubuntu 64 bit. Without any luck regretably. Can someone tell me whether pdp++ can be installed on a 64 bit OS? If so, how? > > To use the four cores of my quadcore in version 3, I should use the Makefile.LINUXdmem-file, or shouldn't I? I didn't get the two cores of my dual core to work previously, but hopefully someone can help. > > Thanks a lot in advance, > > kind regards, > > Frank > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > With Windows Live Hotmail, you can personalize your inbox with your favorite color. > www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/personalize.html?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_addcolor_0607_______________________________________________ > PDP-Discuss mailing list > PDP-Discuss@psych.Colorado.EDU > http://psych.colorado.edu/mailman/listinfo/pdp-discuss _________________________________________________________________ Play free games, earn tickets, get cool prizes! Join Live Search Club.? http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink From Randy.OReilly at colorado.edu Tue Aug 21 03:14:45 2007 From: Randy.OReilly at colorado.edu (Randall C. O'Reilly) Date: Tue Aug 21 03:18:58 2007 Subject: [pdp-discuss] Announcing: Emergent Neural Network Simulation Software (formerly PDP++) Message-ID: <200708210314.45574.Randy.OReilly@colorado.edu> Announcing: The Emergent Neural Network Simulation System http://grey.colorado.edu/emergent/index.php/Main_Page Emergent is a major rewrite of the widely used PDP++ system. Emergent is a comprehensive simulation environment for creating complex, sophisticated models of the brain and cognitive processes using neural network models. These networks can also be used for all kinds of other more pragmatic tasks, like predicting the stock market or analyzing data. Emergent includes a full GUI environment for constructing networks and the input/output patterns for the networks to process, and many different analysis tools for understanding what the networks are doing. It has a new tabbed-browser style interface (in Qt 4), with full 3D graphics (via Open Inventor/Coin3D), and powerful new GUI programming tools and data processing and analysis capabilities. It supports the same algorithms as PDP++: Backpropagation (feedforward and recurrent), Self-Organizing (e.g., Hebbian, Kohonen, Competitive Learning), Constraint Satisfaction (e.g., Boltzmann, Hopfield), and the Leabra algorithm that integrates elements of all of the above in one coherent, biologically-plausible framework. Relative to PDP++, the main advances are: * Much easier to modify and extend the "scripting" of network training through a new GUI-based programming system -- everything is transparent and user-modifiable. Considerable support is included for implementing complex psychological tasks via this programming environment. * The tabbed browser allows everything to be contained within a single window, with full search functions, cut/copy/paste, drag-and-drop, etc, for a modern, highly efficient working environment. * Everything has been boiled down to the most basic, general-purpose elements, which can now be combined in more powerful, "emergent" ways. Environments and monitor data and all other forms of data have been consolidated in a single powerful DataTable object that supports many different kinds of operations (e.g., database-style Joins and Sorts, vector and matrix math, 3d graphing, statistics, etc). With convenient interfaces for DataTables in the GUI programming environment, flexible and efficient data processing and analysis functions can be readily performed. * Has a greater variety of network visualization tools, and a built-in virtual environment simulator (based on the popular ODE toolkit) allows networks to interact with a realistic simulated environment, to explore more embodied and robotic functionality. * Standard GPL license, ./configure build process, native look-and-feel on all 3 major platforms (Linux, Mac, Windows), easily-installable binary packages (including apt & yum on linux), and dynamically-loadable plugin modules. Relative to the prevalent use of MATLAB and other general-purpose tools for neural neural network simulation, Emergent offers several important advantages: * completely open source, free software. * highly optimized execution speed, including distributed memory computation, while also supporting complex biologically-based neural architectures. * designed specifically to make research simulations easily accessible to other users with minimal additional effort: built-in documentation system, pervasive comment fields, accessible, transparent interface. In brief, if you're doing large scale, complex neural network models, Emergent offers many advantages. From baisa at colorado.edu Wed Aug 22 17:29:39 2007 From: baisa at colorado.edu (Brad Aisa) Date: Wed Aug 22 17:30:00 2007 Subject: [pdp-discuss] Announcing: Emergent Neural Network Simulation Software (formerly PDP++) In-Reply-To: <200708221142.02908.Randy.OReilly@colorado.edu> References: <200708221142.02908.Randy.OReilly@colorado.edu> Message-ID: <46CCC6E3.60904@colorado.edu> Hi Frank, What is the nature of the installation issues you are having? Our goal is to have it work as easily as possible on as many platforms (as there is interest) as possible, so we'd like to improve this. The 64-bit option is not viable right now. A lot of the work has been done, but a fair bit remains. Our priority will be multi-core and alternative compute engine support (ex. GPUs) before doing the 64-bit port. One important issue with the 64-bit is that the codebase needs to be adapted and/or modalized where necessary so it remains viable on all platforms across both bitnesses (so we really have to tackle this as a full cross-platform port.) Another major issue is that ALL of our dependencies need to be fully qualified and available for 64-bit, and this is just not the case at the moment. Regarding compiling for 32-bit on 64-bit, I recall I had to add some magic switch to the configure command to force it to be working in 32-bit mode. Randall C. O'Reilly wrote: > Frank -- I know Brad tried 64bit a while back and ran into some issues and we > put it off.. I don't know how soon we'll be able to get back to it, but Brad > can let you know. Meanwhile, if you want to compile it, you'll have to > follow the build from source, not build from packages route. Let us know if > you give that a try. > From Randy.OReilly at colorado.edu Wed Aug 22 18:36:48 2007 From: Randy.OReilly at colorado.edu (Randall C. O'Reilly) Date: Wed Aug 22 18:36:46 2007 Subject: [pdp-discuss] converting pdp++ projects to Emergent In-Reply-To: <3FA0E8E3-28EC-4A02-9BA9-526A5302A718@uth.tmc.edu> References: <200708210314.45574.Randy.OReilly@colorado.edu> <3FA0E8E3-28EC-4A02-9BA9-526A5302A718@uth.tmc.edu> Message-ID: <200708221836.48644.Randy.OReilly@colorado.edu> Oops! I'll fill that in the wiki later tonight. The quick answer is that you need to remove the units from your project and then just load it, and press the "convert" button at the bottom of the project edit window in the middle panel. The network and environments should transfer, but the processes don't. It will import your scripts but likely they won't work due to differences in the processes and stats and environments, etc. - Randy On Wednesday 22 August 2007 13:34, Hongbin Wang wrote: > Thanks Randy. That's great. One quick question (couldn't find an > answer yet): How's the backward compatibility (can or how hard will > it load old pdp++ projects)? I tried a few but it didn't work. Thanks > and best wishes. > > Hongbin From baisa at colorado.edu Wed Aug 22 23:23:23 2007 From: baisa at colorado.edu (Brad Aisa) Date: Wed Aug 22 23:23:46 2007 Subject: [pdp-discuss] converting pdp++ projects to Emergent In-Reply-To: <200708221836.48644.Randy.OReilly@colorado.edu> References: <200708210314.45574.Randy.OReilly@colorado.edu> <3FA0E8E3-28EC-4A02-9BA9-526A5302A718@uth.tmc.edu> <200708221836.48644.Randy.OReilly@colorado.edu> Message-ID: <46CD19CB.6030200@colorado.edu> I would add a couple of points: 1) in moving from pdp++ v3 to Emergent, it is probably best to spend a bit of time first with some demo projects and a new simple project or two in Emergent, before trying to convert an old project. That will give you a feel for how things are done in the new system, and will then help you decide the best way to convert your environment, scripts, etc. 2) in thinking about moving to the new version, you might ask if you can maintain an existing project in the old version for some time, until you may not need it anymore, and then make new projects in Emergent (of course you can still import old projects , to capture the network model, etc., to act as the basis for a new project) 3) Please feel free to ask questions about conversions! Randall C. O'Reilly wrote: > Oops! I'll fill that in the wiki later tonight. The quick answer is that you > need to remove the units from your project and then just load it, and press > the "convert" button at the bottom of the project edit window in the middle > panel. The network and environments should transfer, but the processes > don't. It will import your scripts but likely they won't work due to > differences in the processes and stats and environments, etc. > > - Randy > > On Wednesday 22 August 2007 13:34, Hongbin Wang wrote: >> Thanks Randy. That's great. One quick question (couldn't find an >> answer yet): How's the backward compatibility (can or how hard will >> it load old pdp++ projects)? I tried a few but it didn't work. Thanks >> and best wishes. From Randy.OReilly at colorado.edu Thu Aug 23 02:37:53 2007 From: Randy.OReilly at colorado.edu (Randall C. O'Reilly) Date: Thu Aug 23 02:37:52 2007 Subject: [pdp-discuss] Re: [Emergent-users] converting pdp++ projects to Emergent In-Reply-To: <200708221836.48644.Randy.OReilly@colorado.edu> References: <200708210314.45574.Randy.OReilly@colorado.edu> <3FA0E8E3-28EC-4A02-9BA9-526A5302A718@uth.tmc.edu> <200708221836.48644.Randy.OReilly@colorado.edu> Message-ID: <200708230237.53388.Randy.OReilly@colorado.edu> The wiki link for this is: http://grey.colorado.edu/emergent/index.php/PDP++_Project_Conversion (accessible via HowTo's and Project pages) Also, we'll cross-post to both emergent-users and pdp-discuss email lists for a while here, but we'd like to transition everyone who's using Emergent over to the new email list. We've heard from one person that the link for that on the main page was password protected -- did others experience that too? We'll try to fix it asap if so. When our sysadmin Wolfi gets back in town, we might just try to move everyone over from pdp-discuss to emergent-users, and then you can manage your subscription from there. Cheers, - Randy On Wednesday 22 August 2007 18:36, Randall C. O'Reilly wrote: > Oops! I'll fill that in the wiki later tonight. The quick answer is that > you need to remove the units from your project and then just load it, and > press the "convert" button at the bottom of the project edit window in the > middle panel. The network and environments should transfer, but the > processes don't. It will import your scripts but likely they won't work > due to differences in the processes and stats and environments, etc. > > - Randy > > On Wednesday 22 August 2007 13:34, Hongbin Wang wrote: > > Thanks Randy. That's great. One quick question (couldn't find an > > answer yet): How's the backward compatibility (can or how hard will > > it load old pdp++ projects)? I tried a few but it didn't work. Thanks > > and best wishes. > > > > Hongbin > > _______________________________________________ > Emergent-users mailing list > Emergent-users@grey.colorado.edu > http://grey.colorado.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/emergent-users